View API Details

Discussion in 'News & Announcements' started by ChrisTurk, Jan 19, 2019.

  1. ChrisTurk

    ChrisTurk Administrator

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    tl;dr
    • Everyone will need an API Key starting Feb 1 Feb 7th in order to use TV with any script.
    • The first month is free for every user. Once that first month ends the price is discounted at $5/month for users that sign up before Mar 1 and $7.99/month otherwise.
      • NOTE: If you have submitted at least 10 reviews on TV (as of 1/20/19), you will get a permanent key for free, this covers hundreds of users who helped build TV & is also extended to a # of community members who have contributed their time/expertise elsewhere.
    ___________________________________
    Background

    The original post for the new API changes is here. This post is going to serve as an update on the plans laid out in that one and to explain some of the process/decision making that came about when actually testing those plans on real users.

    As I dug into MTS, Forker, & updating TVJS, I realized that my original plans for TV's API weren't going to work as intended. There was no good way to split the # of requests for a portion of a day across the scripts that needed it, given that scripts request data in different ways, cache it differently, and have different loads (MTS takes much more data than Forker, etc etc). All things TV itself can't affect or change and will be highly variable across different use cases.

    On top of that, and most importantly, in testing partial day access it became clear some of the very problems the API is meant to alleviate (what MTS/Forker users currently suffer with outdated/missing data) is going to reoccur every day. Once a free daily quota limit is reached users will have some portion of data cached but not receive any new data. This means that throughout the day the information previously sent from TurkerView gets progressively worse. This leads to a poor experience for the worker & puts script authors in the position of being forced to explain why data inconsistencies manifest themselves. It's confusing, unreliable, and it'll lead to bad decisions on HITs/Requesters, never mind the technical knowledge burden that places on users.

    So, better ideas aside (they're welcome if you've got them):

    The Full Plan
    • Since this is a divergence from the original plan I've done this: anyone who (as of 1/20/2019) has submitted 10 or more reviews already on TV has permanently upgraded free API keys. I'd absolutely appreciate it if they chose to support the site's infrastructure, but it won't be required for the API and all access will remain free.
    • February 1st February 7th will mark when you need an API Key in order to access data through the API. TVJS will update today (1/21) & Forker tomorrow (1/22, TPG pending). MTS will get code pushed to it after I get some reasonable load data returned so I can make sure there is enough infrastructure in place to support it. Once/if MTS' code is accepted we'll transition. Again target date is Feb 1st Feb 7th, this is a 'best laid plans' scenario and should an issue arise I will delay auth token enforcement to preserve worker experience if need be.
    • Instead of doing small daily quota limits, we are going to provide users a month of access for free to start out without any of the complicated limits previously planned. It'll work for all scripts & users wont need to worry about caps as long as they're using any of the apps currently supported in normal ways (if you're not in MTurk PRE purgatory, you'll be fine). If you claim your key before Feb 1st you'll be good until Mar 1 (so over 30 days)
      • The subscription price will stay at $5/mo until Mar 1st, but along w/ the trial window period will be subject to what is actually sustainable after that (most likely you'll see it revert to the original intended prices Mar 1st & go to 2-weeks w/ a large discount + time extension for folks participating on the platform). For now, that's nominally known as the "price of a cup of coffee" on the internet, I think it's fair for both what TV represents & provides. The API is a convenience feature, there's nothing you get from it you can't really find on the website itself & I plan on adding a lot of extras/perks for supporting the website in the future (almost guaranteed before Mar even hits)
    • Return Reviews, at least for the foreseeable future, will not be included in any of this. I think they're more useful to newer users & I'd like to keep them open access if possible.
    This is simpler for all parties. It takes care of newbies (many of whom don't make it to a month on the platform anyway), old folks returning to the trenches, and gives everyone the same fair shake to figure out if TurkerView is useful & worth supporting for them.
     
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    Last edited: Jan 30, 2019
  2. LaVette

    LaVette New Turker

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    I support the work you share with everyone and I am impressed by your expertise in this field.
    A big "THANK YOU" for all that you do.

    Will you consider adding the option to pay annually?
     
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  3. ChrisTurk

    ChrisTurk Administrator

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    I certainly don't mind, but I might make this a one-time thing instead of a subscription.. Maybe I'm wrong but I think if it renewed annually people would be more inclined to forget about it & get hit with an unexpected renewel a year later haha. Idk if PP gives any kind of warning for stuff like that & a lot of turkers are seasonal or don't hang around that long, would hate to throw folks into a bad situation for forgetting :eek:
     
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  4. LaVette

    LaVette New Turker

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    That is understandable, and I'm not sure if they notify subscribers either.
    So, are the seasonal workers and those that don't hang around going to have the option to pause the monthly service or does it stay active until it's canceled? There are times when I go inactive, but, even so, I do like the idea of an annual (or even a quarterly) payment. That's just me though. Everyone on Earth might view it differently. :emoji_upside_down:

    EDIT: I'm not seeking to skip months of paying. I only asked that question based on what you said about seasonal workers and wondered if that had anything to do with why you were concerned with annual payments. If I'm subscribed to the service, I have no problem paying for a full year's subscription. I just want to clarify my intent for the question since it can be tough to read people through a screen.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2019
  5. CoruptAI125

    CoruptAI125 Turker

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    Crossing my fingers for MTS
     
  6. Edgeoftheworld

    Edgeoftheworld Turker

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    So, just to clarify - if the only time I see TV is by the color it makes my Hit Forker light up, I won't be able to see that anymore unless I sign up today and pay $60/year?
     
  7. ChrisTurk

    ChrisTurk Administrator

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    Yupp, but TO should still work just fine in Forker w/o it.

    I'd say definitely give it the free period to check out when Forker does update, because what you get right now w/ Forker isn't very reliable or good, but if its not useful to ya no need to fuss with it.
     
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  8. Girl Polar Bear

    Girl Polar Bear Queen of the North

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    I was going to kill you if I had not read this,
     
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  9. Me_Myself_I

    Me_Myself_I New Turker

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    I’m definitely interested in the fee, but I’m trying to grasp all that would be included when I pay? Also is there a option to pay with the money that I earned from mturk? I’m sorry this is all so new & I’m not a new mturk member, but I’m new to Turkerview
     
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  10. MillennialTurk

    MillennialTurk Active Turker

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    Hey Chris, Just an idea to maybe help making old data that predates the new API more reliable. Would there be a way to set the approval times and/or other data to expire after a certain amount of time? Like lets say I made a review for a hit 1 year ago and guessed the approval time or time it took to complete the hit. That data would be less correct than today with the timer and now AA being auto. Fast forward 1 year if there are other newer reviews, could that data be set to expire and removed from the database only showing newer more recent reviews and reliable data? This would be only for reviews that predates the updated system and API of course. I would figure this would make the data more reliable. As we know requesters also sometimes pay more or less and approve faster or slower through time. Something TO had a problem with is having years old data affecting their ratings when requesters may be paying better or approving faster than they were years ago when the older reviews were made. And also maybe set a min limit of reviews thus omitting the removal provisions if say a requester only has like 1 or 2 reviews. Once new reviews are made then allow the older data to be dropped. Not sure if this would be possible. But just an idea.
     
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  11. ChrisTurk

    ChrisTurk Administrator

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    The only reason you'd really want to pay for the API key (right now) is if you use a scraper like HIT Forker or MTS' Finder & rely on the coloring TV provides -or- if you use TVJS in your workflow to prioritize tasks (which you should do, its an efficient way to work, but isn't necessary by any means). There will be more features added to the services overall that might be more interesting to some users than the API (or vice-versa) but that's always something you can come back to & revisit as they roll out.

    For now if you're not using one of those two tools, or don't care about TV's dataset in them, there's no need to worry about needing an upgraded API key at all. Especially if you're using something like HIT Scraper or Overwatch that doesn't use TV to begin with.

    Even if you are using one of those two & not so much TVJS I'd give it a couple days until they're updated & confirmed stable before worrying about it. That'll be a much better time to play w/ it all & it'll be more obvious if TV's API data is useful to an individual or not, right now far too much of it is simply missing from those tools to have as much value. Most of these posts today is simply a desire to get advanced notice out for the major core users (who tend to already have TVJS installed & interact w/ it frequently) :)

    I've looked into integrating w/ Amazon Pay in the past and unfortunately its not really feasible. PayPal & Stripe are the main decent options for these kind of purposes (IMO, at least).

    No worries I'm usually around to answer questions so throw 'em while you got 'em haha. If you're an experienced Turker than as far as TV goes I'd say its a little like TO but a lot more focused on the financial aspects of MTurk and a little less on the intangibles TO kind of covers that muddy the waters (social issues, etc). We actually split out hardcore negative data right off into its own seperate pile (called Return Reviews, if you install TVJS and go accept a James Billings HIT you'll see them immediately) and keep the main database of information more limited in scope to fully completed work so folks can get a quicker overview of what is/isn't worth to dig into.

    Yupp, if you look at Requester profiles you can already see some of these time lapse charts on the overviews, it'll likely be expanded to the API's sets (and AA times will also append to individual HITs themselves) for reasons you just mentioned above.

    And honestly, not even just for "stale" data, but AA is something reqs actually change occasionally anyway so its definitely good to have a more "rolling average" available for the API as well. Those are the kinda things that require beefier infrastructure to get rolling (the calculations on the dataset basically get doubled doing all that) but you'll see it happen :)
     
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  12. TheWerkz

    TheWerkz Turker

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    Chris,

    Can you tell me where this new version of Hit Forker is? The one in your demo video has a place for the Turkerview API key whereas my Hit Forker version 1.0.6.1 doesn't have it, I only have a Pushbullet Token space, no TurkerView.

    I've looked everywhere I can think of but I can't find the version you have.

    Thanks!
     
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  13. RKELLY

    RKELLY Turker

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    I appreciate the work done on TV, I use it daily along with the forum so its well worth the money to me

    keep up the good work
     
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  14. ChrisTurk

    ChrisTurk Administrator

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    Heya, sorry that's my fault I should have hid the video as well but Forker wont be updated until tonight. It wont actually disrupt your workflow (even w/o the API key Forker will still get data from TV) but it does put the same announcement up so I don't wanna push it out to people in the middle of their actual work day.
     
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  15. Dawnia

    Dawnia Turker

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    I figured it out.
     
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    Last edited: Jan 22, 2019
  16. SmallMight

    SmallMight New Turker

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    I got the green update thing on my Mturk dashboard today for the API.

    "Make sure to register & get your new access keys to our upgraded API by visiting your account dashboard. We'll stop displaying this as soon as you do, but the script wont function after February 1st without an API Key."

    When I click the link for viewing my TV 'account dashboard', it takes me to https://turkerview.com/account/api/ and won't let me login. Whenever I click "login" or "create account" on that site, it is redirecting me here, to the forum, where I am already logged in. Is there something I am doing wrong here? Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks!
     
  17. ChrisTurk

    ChrisTurk Administrator

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    Ahh sorry this is a bug w/ sessions expiring from when I transferred the forum over to TV's domain. You just need to log out here then log back in and they'll resync so you can get in. I'm sorry I put in a fix but any accounts already affected need to log out / log in cycle it to fix it.
     
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  18. SmallMight

    SmallMight New Turker

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    Thank you! That seems to have fixed it for me lol
     
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  19. Cal Gal

    Cal Gal Well-Known Turker

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    I signed up for the freebie account and got the API key; but changed my mind and signed up for the paid API key. Is the key the same or do I need to go in and change to the new key. (And if so how do I change?)
     
  20. ChrisTurk

    ChrisTurk Administrator

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    Nope its the same, it just upgrades your existing key :) thank you!
     
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